Hi Art,
On the little set I've made (fit on a 4 by 5" mount) I've had a problem of the pin just bumping into the Geneva and not sliding down into the pocket. I've "carved" it out until I get the motion (slides into pocket) but obviously that's not what was intended I'm sure.
The lantern in 1.25" on the DP and the Geneva is the same.
My question is - Is there a lower limit to which the Geneva's should be cut or is it just the material I'm using (MDF)?
John
PS Still having fun.
Geneva Size Limitations
Geneva Size Limitations
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Re: Geneva Size Limitations
John:
Its likely an issue of tolerance. In a perfect world the "pins" are actually bearings. This is because the pins do not roll
over the respective curves in lanterns, but rather rub as they move. In inverted geneva's, its common to have looseness
at the changeover point, these ones have only a very small amount, so I suspect sanding them to an appropriate contact
angle ( the vector of the point at where the incoming tooth hits the pin when its slightly out of position ), is normal, though I can look into narrowing that angle so it hits at a more deflective angle. ( this is much like the point where a
deadbeat hits the pallet arms, that angle is usually optomised for a power vector less than 90 degrees.
Ill look into if I can modify it to something liek 45 degrees.. In the meantime, the material probably dictate how much one woudl have to sand that point..
Thx for the report,
Art
Its likely an issue of tolerance. In a perfect world the "pins" are actually bearings. This is because the pins do not roll
over the respective curves in lanterns, but rather rub as they move. In inverted geneva's, its common to have looseness
at the changeover point, these ones have only a very small amount, so I suspect sanding them to an appropriate contact
angle ( the vector of the point at where the incoming tooth hits the pin when its slightly out of position ), is normal, though I can look into narrowing that angle so it hits at a more deflective angle. ( this is much like the point where a
deadbeat hits the pallet arms, that angle is usually optomised for a power vector less than 90 degrees.
Ill look into if I can modify it to something liek 45 degrees.. In the meantime, the material probably dictate how much one woudl have to sand that point..
Thx for the report,
Art
Re: Geneva Size Limitations
Thanks Art,
Other Geneva's that I've made don't have the problem so it's no big deal for me.
John
Other Geneva's that I've made don't have the problem so it's no big deal for me.
John
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Re: Geneva Size Limitations
Hi John:
Checking the numbers, it seems that when the tooth just engages the
released wheel, there is a small degree of rotational slop ( which is normal
in this type of geneva ), and this means the entry pressure angle will be 45 degree's
or less depending on the position the wheel takes at engagement. The large the wheel
the more rotational pressure is exerted on the pin to make it turn into its slot. This
means I can see where a very small gear coudl get excessive pressure and bind if
there is much friction. Explains the result you found at any rate.
Let me kow how things work out for you. I take it your finding the larger the geneva the better
the pin meshes during rotation?
Thx, preciate the feedback
Art
Checking the numbers, it seems that when the tooth just engages the
released wheel, there is a small degree of rotational slop ( which is normal
in this type of geneva ), and this means the entry pressure angle will be 45 degree's
or less depending on the position the wheel takes at engagement. The large the wheel
the more rotational pressure is exerted on the pin to make it turn into its slot. This
means I can see where a very small gear coudl get excessive pressure and bind if
there is much friction. Explains the result you found at any rate.
Let me kow how things work out for you. I take it your finding the larger the geneva the better
the pin meshes during rotation?
Thx, preciate the feedback
Art
Re: Geneva Size Limitations
Hi Art,
I'm finding that on 2 inch geneva's its important that the outer edge of the geneva is as close as possible to the pins (lightly rubbing) and then it goes fine.
John
I'm finding that on 2 inch geneva's its important that the outer edge of the geneva is as close as possible to the pins (lightly rubbing) and then it goes fine.
John
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Re: Geneva Size Limitations
Thx John:
I noticed that the pinion is set for a particular radisu to match a particular wheel. In other words you have to ensure that when you dropa pinion, no more pins are added to the wheel before its dropped. This ensures the pinion al;ways rubs the pins. I guess the trick if one wshes to use various pinwheels on one driver, is to make the pinion with the smallest pinwheel first, place them both, then increase the wheel sizes. You can probably get away with that.
Thx for the testing though, its nice to know these things..
ARt
I noticed that the pinion is set for a particular radisu to match a particular wheel. In other words you have to ensure that when you dropa pinion, no more pins are added to the wheel before its dropped. This ensures the pinion al;ways rubs the pins. I guess the trick if one wshes to use various pinwheels on one driver, is to make the pinion with the smallest pinwheel first, place them both, then increase the wheel sizes. You can probably get away with that.
Thx for the testing though, its nice to know these things..
ARt
Re: Geneva Size Limitations
Hi Art,
The Geneva's I've built so far have all been "sliding" pins - Is there a way to provide for a "roller" pin in the Geneva design. I can easily make rollers by using a piece of brass tubing over a steel pin. However to do that I need one size for the pin and another for the roller - when I change the pin size it changes the whole Geneva design and I can't use gCode to drill the pin holes.
Hope that makes sense.
John
PS I can easily live with sliding.
The Geneva's I've built so far have all been "sliding" pins - Is there a way to provide for a "roller" pin in the Geneva design. I can easily make rollers by using a piece of brass tubing over a steel pin. However to do that I need one size for the pin and another for the roller - when I change the pin size it changes the whole Geneva design and I can't use gCode to drill the pin holes.
Hope that makes sense.
John
PS I can easily live with sliding.
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Re: Geneva Size Limitations
Why can't you simply make two drawings? One that shows the pin holes and one for the roller diameters. Then merge the two drawing and delete the parts you don't want.
Dan
Dan
Re: Geneva Size Limitations
John:
Dans suggestion is a good one. The pinwheel doesnt really change when you change pin radius, only the pinion tooth changes. Id make a small pin version and a large bearing version, then use the pinion from the large bearing version
and only use the smaller pin version for drilling purposes..
Thx
Art
Dans suggestion is a good one. The pinwheel doesnt really change when you change pin radius, only the pinion tooth changes. Id make a small pin version and a large bearing version, then use the pinion from the large bearing version
and only use the smaller pin version for drilling purposes..
Thx
Art
Re: Geneva Size Limitations
Thanks Guys that should work well.
I'm also going to try making the pin holes 1/8" and using the 1/8"OD Brass tubing as an "insert" up to the surface of the Lantern wheel, and then inserting the 3/32" rod inside of that and finally the roller will be the 1/8" tubing installed over the 3/32" that the "tooth" will engage. I'll let you know how it progresses.
John
I'm also going to try making the pin holes 1/8" and using the 1/8"OD Brass tubing as an "insert" up to the surface of the Lantern wheel, and then inserting the 3/32" rod inside of that and finally the roller will be the 1/8" tubing installed over the 3/32" that the "tooth" will engage. I'll let you know how it progresses.
John
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